KIAI Instructor Interview--Ramon Lawrence
This article the latest in a continuing series of interviews with the various Instructors within KIAI
KIAI: How old
were you when you start training in the martial arts, and what made you start?
Ramon: I started boxing when I first joined the Royal Australian Navy at 15 years of age. It was a compulsory sport in those days and meant to be character building. It really formed a "pecking order" within the 300 recruits and as I didn't like to be hit I would fly in and defeat my opponent as quick as I could by taking one punch if I had to just to give five more back. I received some good beatings of the body in the process but won all my fights without a defeat. When the opportunity came to not box I took it! I then looked for learning Judo but it was seven years before I found somewhere and that was when I was posted to England for submarine service. I was lucky to find Sensei Bill Heffer as my first Sensei and he set my mind down the right track as much as my body.
KIAI: What
made you start practicing sword arts?
Ramon: I had done many years of Judo and reached an elite competitive standard before badly damaging my knees. I then went looking for something a little less brutal on the body and found an art called Jishukan that consisted of Kempo, Jujutsu and Jojutsu and was controlled by Japanese Sensei operating in Yokosuka, Japan. We didn't get to learn the Jojutsu until preparing for Shodan level and as it was primarily designed for defence against a sword I decided to learn some kendo so we had a proper attack standard to learn our defence against. Only a good defence can be learnt from a good attack. As there was not any kendo in Western Australia at that time I found another practitioner emigrating from England and started Kendo off in Perth. I am still running the kendo to this day. During my time in Kendo my interest grew on learning more about the katana so during a trip to Japan I bought two iaito and started learning when I returned to Perth. The late Hiraga Sensei was my first iaido sensei and now I train directly under Yoshinari Sensei for Seitei iaido and Tamiya Ryu iaijutsu and are deeply committed to both.
KIAI: Did you
ever have the chance of actually using your martial arts--especially your sword
art?
Ramon: Indirectly, I use it often. I am involved with the hospitality industry where there is a dependence on alcohol, particular at wedding functions. The main aim of swordsmanship is the defeat of your opponent without drawing your sword. I use the same principles to convert trouble makers into reasonable people who will play by my rules of conduct. The eyes and confidence is very overpowering when used correctly, it is also more powerful when you have a smile on your face for others to see while the problem person can only see "kill" in your eyes. Nobody wants that kind of confrontation and providing you use it wisely it helps you every time. Seven years of this work has resulted in diffusing all situations in time to prevent a disaster or physical contact between people, particularly myself. I do not use bluff and would be committed to a quick finality if I had to, but pray that it never comes to that point. I guess the old story of "you were prepared to win, but I was prepared to die before I let you" makes my point and attitude of commitment when the chips are down. Your opponent rarely is prepared to such a commitment and the situation is won at that point.
KIAI: Are you
a full time instructor, if so, what are the benefits and challenges?
Ramon: Martial arts is my "hobbie". I instruct in all my spare time and travel to run seminars. I do not receive direct payment although there is monthly fees to sustain most of the dojo costs. My other business interests are my financial support system and also benefits the arts I study and allows me to pass on the small amount of knowledge I have been fortunate to accumulate over the last 35 years. The benefits are the improved social and professional lives of your students and the challenge is "how many more people can I help make a better life through what I know best". It is a legacy that is passed on from your teachers that you have no right to keep to yourself. My first teacher was English and he said on my fifth lesson that he was prepared to teach me everything he knows if I would do one thing only in return. I asked what it was and he said teach everything you know to two other people. Here I am now trying to teach one person everything I know and realise it is an impossibility but I made an agreement to him and he kept his bargain so I will too - fully knowing I will die before achieving the impossibility. It was a good trick on his behalf as he read my commitment well. I have refused to place the same promise onto my students as most people would fail and I would prefer my students to do it without forcing any compromise to an agreement when their circumstances in life change. This commitment is sacred to me but difficult to get anybody to really understand why unless they have travelled a similar life experience road to myself.
KIAI: If you
had the chance to start all over again, would you choose to pursue the martial
arts?
Ramon:
KIAI: How many
times per week do you train?
Ramon:
KIAI: What do
you think of under age (juvenile) black belts?
Ramon: They do not exist in any of my martial arts clubs. The minimum age for Shodan I recommend is 18 years of age. They need to be a mature adult to be capable of understanding life skills, being a responsible adult and to show they have a proper maturity to wisely use the skills I teach. Once they reach Shodan they start to learn the real art as this is where the basics have been established and the knowledge to combine these basics correctly start. My student learn relatively quickly that the belt does not really matter and if their mind is on achieving high Dan Grades they are following the wrong path. Dan Grades come from outside of yourself for others to bestow to show a recognition of where you are at so others can balance the value you give counsel until they get their own first hand valuation. Not wearing any identification of grade in iaido and kendo is one of the great benefits of studying the art. When you face off your opponent you should be able to gauge the value of your opponent and not be digressed by words connected with the name saying a grade that may not be correct in reality. Children cannot really make this change and a Black Belt leaves a bad impression of responsibility and capability that is unfair for them. My students are not permitted to wear grading belts outside of my dojo so that this is not abused as a mental power over others.
KIAI: What is your opinion of competitive (sport) martial arts?
Ramon:
KIAI: Do you think the general public is misled about the ability
and practicality of budo due to the media’s portrayal of martial arts and
martial arts entertainers?
Ramon:
KIAI: Do you think events like the “UFC,” etc. hurt or help
martial arts?
Ramon:
KIAI:
Do you think the non-tangible benefits of budo like self-confidence, self-relRamonce, self-respect, discipline, leadership, maturity, etc. are as
important to young budoka as the physical ability to defeat or control another
person in today’s sometimes deteriorating contemporary society?
Ramon: At 15 you may fight physically; at 35 you will fight mentally; at 50 you fight with the heart; but, at 60 you fight with your whole body and system to survive. We need to be aware of this for who we are training and make sure they comprehend these variances in life and be aware of the opponent who may fight out of his category! To really understand the martial arts these life experiences are required and therefore you never stop learning and changing your understanding of the martial arts, only where I am today!
KIAI: Where are martial arts, in general, heading?
Ramon: Back to the classical methods of structure I hope. The strength of martial systems are those who have longevity. You only reach longevity by continual change in application to stay with the times and minds of a changing population. However, the principles never change - just the application methods and the minds of those who train in them. If martial arts teachers share their true knowledge openly and fully to the right people at the right time the martial arts will grow for us and so will the community. We must show by example and take a proper and full community role in developing our social structures that show strength of character, particularly during adversity. As the world become a "smaller" place this becomes more important for any civilisation to survive.
KIAI: What, in your opinion, is the greatest detriment to the
martial arts?
Ramon: Ourselves, through personal ego's and a natural tendency to put others down at their expense without real justification. Our senior members are our own worst enemy! This art is better than that art, etc. They all have a role to play and variation accommodates the variation in people. It is natural but the good must overcome the bad at the end of the day.
KIAI: In your
opinion, what is the ideal age to start martial arts training?
Ramon: Depending on the art and how it is taught. Non contact arts can be taught as low as three years of age if it is aimed at appropriate motive skills and physiological concerns are considered. It has to be fun and it will not be the same martial art as the teenager or the adult levels - but it will induce the martial spirit in it's own way. I have kempo/jujutsu students from five years and they are very successful in their educational and community skills. They learn more about averting a fight than getting into one. However I would prefer them to be around eight years to start as they can apply more martial art skills without the injury dangers - in this I mean the long term damage caused over a long period of changing physiology (green bones, muscle growth, height growth, hormones etc).
KIAI: What is
your favorite part of training in Japanese swordsmanship?
Ramon: Perfecting human movement to flow with the sword and seeing this ability passed onto my students by my instruction. The ability to find ways of satisfactory explanation is also a factor.
KIAI: What are
your opinions and thoughts regarding tameshigiri, and do you practice it?
Ramon:
KIAI: What do
you think of kendo’s “armored philosophy” versus chanbara’s “padded
way”?
Ramon: The kendo armour still limits the reality of what sword fighting is about but it does give some advantages and gains to the concept. Padded chanbara makes the principle disappear even further than kendo. So, it must be determined what is the principle students want to study most. Chanbara gives and accident free approach where you can have a wow of a time beating each other silly without the worry of being hurt from your opponents weapon or you can have the kendo approach that still has some of the limitations that are being encouraged by chanbara but also allows the true kendoist/swordsman an approach to some of the concepts. It becomes a personal choice at the end of the day and both have their advantages and disadvantages. I think chanbara will gain more ground because it can be safely applied at an earlier age with a huge fun content that is safe. Kendo is hard work but gives a more appreciated end result for those who persevere.
KIAI: Do you
own an authentic Japanese made shinken, if so, how does it compare to the modern
shinken sold today?
Ramon:
KIAI: What do
you think of the many modern martial art systems that are trying to copy the
ancient ryuha?
Ramon: This debate raves on and will never be settled. The old ryuha have their purpose and much of it has been lost or not available to the west - probably because we have settled for taking what we get easily and trying to make do or change it without understanding. My jujutsu was a ryuha based art and it taught the principles that the art was developed from so that the application become more personal as you learnt more of the art. I also had a period where I was required to teach prison officers a self-defence system after the results of a prison riot. I took the principles and applied them to a determined problem the prison officer experienced and formulated a basic, quick to learn series of techniques which taught them to quickly and effectively respond to the situation with the right end results. I coupled this with the prison officer having to justify his action appropriately to the threat with an end result where all were winners. The prison officer won out but the prisoner felt he was lucky to come out so lightly and due to the discretion of the prison officer using the new found skill. I guess you could say, at the end of the day, that I was using Ryuha in a modern way. This is a natural use as the attacks are now different, the rules of conflict are different, the ramifications are different from yesteryear. Change is inevitable or the ryuha is dead. One should ask the question "when was the ryuha born anyway?" We may say a ryuha was started in 1579 etc but when it was 1579 I bet there were people saying "you are changing the old ways to meet the new ones" even then. So, nothing will change and we may well be thought of in future years as the start of the ryuha of "sporting chanbara" for example. I study both types and appreciate both for what they are and they help me understand each other. An open mind that is on a continuous upgrade may be a better way of looking at it.
KIAI: Do you
think it is necessary to have at least a basic understanding of the native
language and culture of the country of origin for the martial art(s) you train
in?
Ramon: It would be nice but there are people like myself who have tried to learn Japanese without any success. It takes natural language abilities, time, opportunity, finances and energy. I have no trouble visiting and training in other countries without speaking the language. I learn from looking and experiencing the techniques and reading my Sensei's expressions and manner to determine the way I should go. It may be harder in some cases but far more rewarding in others. A good Sensei does not need to talk. On the other hand I would love to be able to be fluent in reading and writing so that I could study the old manuscripts etc and get the enjoyment that people like Karl Friday, Meik Skoss and others do so well and that us less literate people are able to enjoy and gain an insight into parts we may have never known. There needs to be a balance and sharing of physical, mental and literate knowledge between us all so that we may all continue our search and understanding for better awareness and improvement on our journey. It is very important that we do understand the circumstances of the culture that developed an art as this gives a more accurate way of understanding what it is that we are trying to study overall.
In 1985 I wrote a philosophical
article called "The Mountain of Knowledge".
It has been one thing that I have been proud to have written but I find myself
reading it often and realising that there was a far deeper meaning behind each
of my statements than I had first thought. I was under intense physical and
mental training in Japan at the time - and only Nidan level in four arts - but
what my Sensei had put into my head at that time was extremely deep and meaningful
but something I am still trying to understand nearly twenty years after writing
it unaided. Now that is a true Sensei!
KIAI: Ramon, thank you for taking the time to share some of your vast knowledge and experience, we wish you the best in your on-going Budo training.